KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes Online

 

Technology has advanced with years that there is now a modern way to buy and sell mortgage notes online. TJ Osterman and Rick Allen, the Founders of Paperstac, a FinTech company aiming to solve the problem in the way trading mortgage notes is conducted, share what they do to facilitate deals that makes Paperstac distinct from other FinTech companies. As they dive into their work of genius, learn their insights on fractional ownership and their thoughts about Millennials taking over the business. Also, find out the value of socially responsible investing as they jump into their Money with Meaning Fund.

Listen to the podcast here:

Buying And Selling Mortgage Notes Online with TJ Osterman and Rick Allen

I’ve got a great episode for you. I met these guys several years ago. I believe I was the first one to introduce them into the business. It’s nothing better than having somebody take what you teach and absolutely run with it. That’s what these guys have done. There’s no question. They started changing the industry a couple of years ago. You talk about guys who have taken the information, invested in their education, invested into their businesses and took it to a new level. It’s these two guys. Let me introduce to you from Paperstac, we’ve got TJ and Rick.

How’s it going?

It’s good to talk to you again. I was talking with TJ and we live in the same town. We were like, “Why aren’t we getting together more? Why aren’t we doing that?” We’ve made a verbal commitment to do that. It’s great to see what you have done. I know we’ve got a lot to talk about and a lot of things that you are doing. I wanted to start with what you’re doing at Paperstac for some people who may not be familiar with it. For everybody, you should know about it, no question. You’ve heard me talk in live events and on this podcast about where’s the inventory. They’ve got inventory. They’ve got a great trading platform. There’s nothing like it in the industry. Give us a little background about Paperstac. I know you’ve done some additional things and some very new things I was talking with Rick about it as well. Why don’t we start there?

First of all, thanks for having us on. It’s been always great to spend a little time with you, Kevin. You’re right. You got us into the business. With Paperstac, it was probably several years ago, we’re in the middle of doing a transaction and it got hairy. We had $250,000 sent out to an attorney. They were sending us the due diligence files and said, “We sent you the files in Dropbox.” We’re like, “No, you didn’t.” They had sent it to us in Box, which is a competitor of Dropbox. There was this giant miscommunication on it. It turns out that half of the assets we were bidding on were lost to taxes. The other half had been demoed because they were condemned. The whole deal was a nightmare. One of the assets that we did purchase where we got the collateral file. The only thing that was original in the collateral file was the lost note affidavit. We looked at each other and we go, “What year are we in? Why is there any sort of technology helping us navigate this?”

This is the time when you guys didn’t care for me. You loved me at the training. All of a sudden, “What did this guy get me into?”

We looked at each other and went, “This is crazy. Let’s create some software out there to start doing this.” At the time, FCI exchange was out there. We purchased a few assets off there. We said, “We liked that concept. We think it can be done better.” Our initial step was to go overseas to India. We vaporized about 30,000 on code that came back, it was horrible. From there, we brought in Mike and Brett. We got serious about it. We’re blessed to have those two guys on the team because they have a technology focus. We look at it as Paperstac in itself is a technology company, a FinTech company. We’re trying to solve the problem in the process of buying and selling loans, doing it completely online and having a digital audit trail. We’ve got some exciting stuff coming up in the works on Paperstac.

I have to say the one thing that the biggest lesson when anybody’s looking to apply some technology to their business is don’t take the cheap route. It’s very attractive. It’s a shiny object. You might save a lot of money, which you will. Honestly, you’re going to have to go back and correct the stuff. Nowadays, the way that the technology is, how advanced it is, it’s available to the mom and pop investors, smaller guys like us at a very reasonable price. A few years ago, I don’t think Paperstac could have even been in place because of the online notarization. None of that stuff was there in place. It would have gone offline. There are tertiary markets out there that are now catering to the smaller investors out there and giving us the ability to now do things that only big-time shops were able to do in the past. That’s the one thing I have to say as advice. Invest in some new technology or you don’t have to invest, just use Paperstac.

I agree with you when FCI Exchange was around, which I don’t believe it is anymore, I heard somebody maybe bought the platform or what have you. When that was around, that’s all it was. It was to trade assets. I used to have to tell people in class like, “There’s no guarantee.” FCI is not guaranteeing any transaction. You have to do your due diligence. It was inconsistent. Did they have the paperwork in there? It was whatever anybody wanted to submit. You guys looked at that and it was relatively new for the industry. You saw that from the investor side first, which I love and created Paperstac. What’s different about Paperstac? What are some of the things that it can do to facilitate these deals?

One of the biggest things is it’s 100% digital process. What that does is it creates a digital audit trail. You can go back at any time and always review what went down with a loan when you’re purchasing it. It’s always a great idea to be able to go back and track it, all the way down to even the phone call feature. We launched that and that has been one of the biggest features we’ve launched where you go on the platform, if you want to talk to your counterparty, you simply push a button, it calls your phone. It calls their phone. It joins the calls together. It records the phone call and it transcribes it and puts it on your timeline. In this world of he said-she said, with how litigious our society is becoming, it’s very important to have that digital audit trail. That’s one of the huge features there.

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The big thing is that we had that problem like you were saying, FCI Exchange. We loved the look of that. It was easy to digest. It was a lot easier than what we call hieroglyphics, the 50 rows and 50 columns spreadsheets. You’re like, “I need a class on doing this.” What we saw was there needed to be that process because Rick and I bought a bunch of assets. We looked at each other and six months down the road, this was very early on, “You’re supposed to have insurance on these?” I wish somebody would’ve told us this. All the education we got, there are a lot of moving parts. We said, “Why isn’t there a linear progress? Step one, we purchased the note. Step two, this is what you need to do, step three and step four.” It lowers that barrier of entry for those investors. They can get into the investment class with a little more confidence. That’s when we came up with that idea of let’s do step one, step two, and if you aren’t going to step to the end of the book unless you read the first few chapters.

Along with that linear progression, one of the things that’s big, and I always forget to do this, is I sell an asset, I get excited. Money comes in. I never notify my servicer, “I sold this asset. You need to start it.” Paperstac does that for you. It kicks off the whole servicer transfer process by sending an email to both counterparties and both of the outgoing servicer and the incoming servicer. It’s meant as an efficiency product. Some of the exciting stuff we’re doing is we’re adding integrate tunes with self-directed IRA custodians. That’s huge. If anyone’s ever invested with their self-directed IRA, the paperwork that goes along with it is tedious. It doesn’t need to be. Once our integration is complete, we have nine of them who have committed, nine different custodians right now who have committed to integrating with Paperstac. Their clients will have push button funding so they can go onto Paperstac, push a button, it fills out the paperwork for you and you can fund. What does that do? It cuts down on the amount of paperwork. It cuts down on the time to fund a deal. It cuts down on the errors because once you enter something, once it’s in there, it’s locked, it’s stored and it’s secured. That’s going to be a huge thing.

That’s a game changer. There’s no question about it. In fact, I did interview Blake over at NuView Trust, an IRA company. They’re doing a lot of events now, attracting note and real estate investors and such. To be able to have that efficiency, nobody has ever done that. You have to think, “Why?” until you guys have done this and that’s incredible.

NuView is one of the ones we’re integrating with the collectively self-directed custodians that we’ve reached out to and have committed. They’ve accounted for 9,000 transactions in the note space in 2018. That’s a lot of deals. That’s a lot of stuff moving. There are sellers on there but also the very next thing we’re adding is the ability to facilitate the partial, to apply that digital process to the partial. It’s going to be a game changer.

You could go down how the fractional partial, whatever you want to call it, is a big buzzword nowadays in the investment world. There are different ways of now owning things where you don’t have to have $1 million to own a commercial building. You can own a fraction of it. It’s the same idea. It’s the same concept. I know, Kevin, you’ve been teaching for a long time. The problem is I don’t think people could conceptualize it as much. Applying and augmenting some technology over the top to it to help facilitate this is a major game changer. The self-directed IRA space and what we’re doing with them when the mutual fund came out, and IRA then 401(k), that was the only thing in town. That business went crazy in the ‘80s. They provided a place for these people to invest in that mutual fund. It’s that same type of thing, this alternative asset class people are looking for their yield-hungry investors out there. There’s a reason why people have been in the banking industry for a long time and collecting on the debt. It’s a nice asset class.

The partials are powerful. It’s no question. You guys are spot on. In fact, in my new book that’s coming out, I did a forward-thinking book. The book is not about the note business basics and things like that. I have one chapter to get people up to speed and everything else is combining real estate with notes. I do a whole segment on partials, both from a buyer perspective and a seller perspective. What I’ve found in all these years in training is there’s still a good portion of people that I meet that say, “I love it but I want to buy notes. I don’t want to learn a full-time thing. I want what I call a turnkey note. It has nothing to do with turnkey properties. I want to place money here and get cashflow in return.” The best way and the safest way is through a partial.

On the other side, because we’ve got so many people involved in the note business over the last several years, there are people that have private inventory that you bet a part of it is for sale at any point in time. They aren’t marketing it out there because they would love to recapitalize on some things and move the product that way. There’s a good inventory that’s unseen that people can tap into short-term performing notes, for some reason, five years seems to be the hot button. I don’t know what you have seen on your side there. I’m guessing from people putting five-year CDs or something like that and saying, “If I can make a higher return, 8% to 11% or something like that on a short-term note, I’m all in.” That is going to be a huge draw over at Paperstac.

I know we don’t want to beat up the partial too much or didn’t talk about it too much. The big thing that I think well is that without the technology like we’re stating, I don’t think partial would ever come to fruition.

To bring it out there, with the new generation of investors, they want to use this. They want to push a button and they want to buy yield. Even that five-year term, it’s going to come down and people are going to say, “I can buy a twelve or a 24-month return and I can get 6% maybe.” What does that do is it gives you so many more options on liquidating your assets. Maybe if you’re a seller, you’ve got, “I need to sell.”

KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes Online

Mortgage Notes Online: There’s a reason why people have been in the banking industry for a long time and collecting on the debt because it’s a really nice asset class.

 

You hit it right on the head. In our business, liquidity is the issue. How do we create this? How do we make this market more liquid? That’s what any investor wants to know. How liquid is my money? How fast can I get out so I can reinvest it? Right now, it’s not as liquid as it could be.

I love what you said. People are looking, “I love the idea of investing in notes. I don’t want to learn it. I don’t want to learn the discipline. I want to push the button and know that I can get 6% for the next twelve, 24 months.” Maybe it’s a little higher if I’m stretching it out and willing to go five years, but I also liked the idea of having somebody in the back end is going to manage it. When you start doing that, then what does our target market look like? That’s financial advisors.

By the way, when he said, “Push the button,” he was holding up his phone. Everybody now needs something and they’ll just Amazon. Everybody’s ordering stuff on their phone and that’s what they want. They want that efficiency. Why not apply it to cashflow? Why not apply it to a note? It makes sense. If everything is there and you could go, “I like this. I can check that off. Let me click the button here,” they might have to do a little follow-up after they click the button. That’s what you guys have done is streamline this whole process. The way I see is you have taken the pattern of buying a note and you’ve automated it. You’ve made it that much easier, that much more efficient to go through. When I was teaching classes six, seven years ago, you had to spend a good half a day going through spreadsheets, showing how to do formulas and all that sort of stuff. With the setup there, you’ve automated that to the point where you can get a good first look at due diligence, go through the documentation. When you’re ready to buy, click the button and let’s go. That’s efficient as it gets.

We’re working several years ago, we locked ourselves in the office when we got a tape. It was five days of doing nothing because you’re going to county websites. You’re basically an attorney or a private investigator. You’re wearing so many hats. You had to learn how to navigate a small city’s website, a local government’s website. There’s zero technology there going into folders. It was like, “This is insane.” We saw that as the opportunity.

It’s neat to see because if you go back 25 years ago before you even heard of this business, it was all in folders. It was Manila folders and you would spread everything out on a desk and start going through everything. You didn’t have the internet. We had microfilm and stuff like that and big folders. We used to grind through that stuff. We got the spreadsheets. You guys are the next step. You’re the tip of the spear on that for sure. It’s Paperstac.com. They’ve got probably 100 assets available at all times. It’s a great efficient way to do the business and the closings, and people may not know this, that’s all digitized as well. It’s the electronic signatures and the whole thing.

Everything 100% front to back. From the time you’re looking to the time you close, everything is handled digitally so you can do that and have that digital audit trail. Touching on inventory, we had made that connection at our last conference with a $3 billion fund who has 15,000 assets. They love the idea of using Paperstac for the efficiency but also to touch that retail market and started getting their inventory out there. You maybe see some of the broker jokers starting to fade away.

When you talk to these big young funds, what’s interesting is that our little world, our niche market low-level stuff, they don’t even know that there’s a whole army being trained in buy and sell. They say, “I can not only create another basically supply chain of buyers from our institutional level,” there are always going to be there. They got their legacy and technology in place. You’re saying to me that maybe 10%, 20% I can capture into our retail market and sell these one-offs? They need that extra love that none of our guys are going to want to take. The systemic effects from that from handing those ones that those guys don’t want to smaller investors. We’ve seen from the borrower’s perspective, the quality of customer service because you got your own skin in the game, you’re going to believe you’re going to want to work with that borrower to get it re-performing or push it through the judicial process so it doesn’t get stuck.

One of the things you touched on is when you say that the inventory that they don’t want. That doesn’t mean it’s bad inventory. It doesn’t meet they’re buying criteria. A lot of the larger institutions want stock worth $250,000 or more. There is a ton of locked up value in that stuff, $150,000 or less. Honestly, that’s where the big eyes aren’t focusing. We’ve always been of the mindset go where the big people aren’t because there are a lot of opportunities there. I wanted to clarify the not bad inventory, but that’s the area that we live in and work in on a daily basis.

That’s where we make our living. I have two kids, a wife. Rick’s got three kids. We’ve been doing this full-time for several years now. That’s all that we bought as the lower value stuff. It’s a fantastic asset class because there’s not a lot of fuzz.

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Especially for the self-directed, you can buy more and you can start hitting those higher double-digit returns in a lower price band. When you get to the higher price band, it’s not there.

It plays into that idea of we’re in an affordable housing crisis. There are seven million units needed in our country. They’re not building and they can’t. These builders aren’t building any more of the stuff. Every day we’re getting tapes over with thousands of home sitting there vacant. Nobody is doing anything with them. Banks don’t want to liberate them back into society because it’s not worth their time. We’re not only able to touch that and provide more inventory to the affordable homes sector out there in the United States, which is great, but the margins are great because these guys don’t see the value.

There’s a different mentality in owning and creating portfolios than owning one note. When somebody buys one note, you’re totally focused on that and you run your numbers on that one note. When you’re looking at portfolios, you run numbers on the whole portfolio. When you look at your portfolio and you go, “We want to focus more here,” you have to let that other inventory go, which is great for us. As we’ve seen for the smaller investor to diversify is a much smarter play on lower price band assets than it is on higher price band. Putting everything in one $2 million home out in California or something like that. The market can change on you really quick especially out west. It’s already doing that. Everybody checked that out, Paperstac.com and see what their assets look like. They’ve got a number of different sellers on there that are trading on this platform. It’s very efficient. I believe you have some helpful videos on there too if my memory serves.

We have some knowledge base, some know-how videos. You can definitely check those out. There’s a little chat button in the bottom right. If you reach out to there, most of the time you’re going to get one of us live. We’ll be able to walk you through and answer any questions.

Let’s shift gears here a little bit because I know you guys had a big happening, for lack of a better term, over there where you put together a fund. You went through the whole beautiful, easy SEC process, getting a fully fledge fund versus a private placement mechanism. You also added in a social value to it. I know that’s something near and dear to you guys. Tell us about that and what are you planning on doing?

It’s called Money with Meaning Fund. It’s MWMFund.com.

It was when we left Fort Lauderdale where we met you on the ride back. We learned there’s a side of this business of saving a house or offering a short payoff or modifying a loan. We applied it when we left your training and wound up making quite a bit of money on the ride back. Thank you.

Also, on the socially responsible side was born out of it. If you don’t care about the socially responsible side at all still, if you’re taking a non-performing loan and turning it into a reperforming loan and selling it on the secondary market, you’re going to get more money. Regardless, it’s a good move if somebody went in plus, you’re saving all at the same time. We started to go to all the conferences and started to educate ourselves and said, “There are a lot of opportunities.” We have a very intimate relationship with every one of these borrowers. They’ve gone through a hardship or something. What’s more near and dear than somebody’s home? When we started doing all the reach out ourselves, we were calling up the borrowers, working with our servicers obviously and calling with the buyers, asking them, “What happened?” We started hearing horror stories, how they’ve been treated for several years, “This new impact investing play, there’s a lot of talk going on about it.” I said, “Let’s try to manage with a double bottom line. Let’s try to do profit and purpose.”

We don’t need to clear a 30% return. We can hit an 18%, 20% return and still do good by the borrower. It still turns to something good. That’s what we did. In over the last several years, we’ve started to prove our concept. We’ve raised around $5 million to $6 million, put all the infrastructure in place, got all the education and we decided, “This has some legs. Let’s scale it.” What should we do to scale it? We’re thinking, “Let’s try to help the people that we’re helping, non-accredited investors and accredited investors.” Everybody can participate. We did something called a Regulation A-Plus Tier 2 offering with the SEC. Essentially, what it does is it allows us to generally solicit right online accredited and non-accredited investors. That’s a game changer. We can start advertising all over the place, have them go directly to MWMFund.com, and purchase their shares.

KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes Online

Mortgage Notes Online: There’s a side of the real estate business where you’re saving a house or offering a short payoff or modifying a loan.

 

It ties right into the mission. If we’re going to help people save their house, why not give those same people the houses we’re saving say, “You would never have a chance to invest in a fund like this,” because it typically is going to the accredited investors. They can invest as little as $200. We could save someone’s house, get them back on their feet and they can start taking control of their financial future and investing in a fund or investing in their neighbor’s house by investing in the fund. It goes with the underpinning of trying to make a positive impact.

The trends that you’re seeing too in the investment landscape as Millennials start to take over and they become the decision makers. There’s going to be a lot more. If you want your investment and you want to build a business for long-term, you better start doing something underpinned with the socially responsible type of investing. It’s going to be easier for you to raise money because that’s what the Millennials, that’s the ones even before that are looking for. They’re sick of the old way of doing things. We saw that trend and we decided we’re going to build this for the long run. That’s when we started to dive into that. You see YieldStreet, FundRise and PeerStreet. These are all online investment platforms that several years ago, you couldn’t even have on there because of the regulations out there, because of the technology that you couldn’t do. What ended up the young fund is an online investment platform where investors of all kinds can invest in the trillion-dollar mortgage market.

They can follow along with the reporting that we give back to them and let them know, “This is what we’ve done. This is how much back taxes you paid into this community.” All of those key performance indicators that we look at for the socially responsible side are there. Being in this business, there are so many opportunities when you’re talking to a borrower to help build an ecosystem around that borrower. There are a lot of different verticals that we want to go into when we have these borrowers, not just from saving their home but asking them about jobs, had they been working solar on their home, all these types of stuff to where we can help them subsidize their payments somehow to help them maintain their homeownership.

You’re spot on with the Millennials because in addition to what you said, they’re also a generation that has seen their parents or friends of their parents go through foreclosures or pre-foreclosures when the market tanked. There were generations before that that never saw that. This one certainly did and certainly is sensitive to that because as a result, the things that aren’t at the peak of your mind when you see all these foreclosures for a lot of people, especially somebody like myself that looks at the statistics, it’s numbers. I’m sensitive to the fact that out of those numbers, what happened to those families? There were divorces. There were horrible things that happened, families breaking up and everything else. You’re right where you have this generation of saying, “Let’s be a little bit more socially conscious.” Thankfully, the way that the banks are now the foreclosures have gone way down and workouts are growing. I’m telling people 2019, 2020 is going to be the year of re-performing loans as a result of a lot of these issues here. Did you ever get a letter or phone call from somebody that you helped save their home? Was that a triggering thing?

The first time we made them the offer, we bought a loan for $30,000. We were into it for $32,000. The debt was $70,000. The house was worth $50,000. I said, “Give us $50,000, we’ll give you the house.” They broke down crying on the phone.

That was Jacksonville. I remember that case study.

We looked at each other driving back and I was like, “That was so powerful.” It moved us and changed our investment trajectory for sure. Along the way, we’ve had several of them. In some of the stories we’ve heard about the borrowers and how they were treated, not necessarily by the large banks, but some of maybe a vulture fund that came out there was, it was one that we had to move out. They said they were going to throw her in jail if she didn’t sign the house over. She wound up living in a shed. The story, it blew my mind. We were like, “Let’s do what we can to change this.” You start looking around and going, “We’re fighting,” like what TJ touched on, “the affordable housing crisis by doing this.” It all worked well together.

I used to teach that Jacksonville case study that you gave to me because of that. If I remember correctly, there was an elderly gentleman who lost his wife and was in the house and ran into a situation he couldn’t afford. The daughter wanted to come in and help him because getting older he was having some issues and such. He needed assistance. You made it where a bank wouldn’t have done that. They wouldn’t have done that because they’re thinking in terms of portfolios, not that one person. Thankfully, you guys buying that note could focus on that and made a decision where you could have made more money if you went a different direction on this. You made a good profit on it, but you also helped these people out and that completely changed the trajectory of their lives.

We’re not here to try to beat up on bigger institutions or banks, it’s not part of their business plan. Fortunately for us, it’s part of our business plan. We’re a little bit nimbler. Anybody that’s managing less than 10,000 notes is probably a little bit nimbler to be able to make those changes and being able to forgive past due fees. Probably of that $20,000, there are probably fees and past due interest that you could have, like we did, got rid of.

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When you take into account the discount you’re buying it, you can start using that. What are you going to use the discount for? What do they say with Spiderman? With great power comes great responsibility.

You have that option.

You could say, “It’s such a good deal. I’ve got a lot of power over these people.” I can use this to do good. I’m still making a great return.

It’s the asset manager at the bank or the loss mitigation department that has to then say, “I’m going to get rid of $20,000 off of this person’s loan.” He’s got to take that to his manager and that manager has to take it to another person and say, “You’re going to do what? Are you kidding me?” “We would still turn it double,” it’s not going to happen. That’s my point is it’s nobody’s fault. This is what’s created. We have the opportunities to fill that gap and do a different strategy. That’s all that is.

If an investor comes into Money With Meaning, MWMFund.com and invest in that, the money is going to be managed by you and your team. The social awareness part of it is the idea is to buy notes that you can get from non-performing to re-performing. Is that the whole goal? Is it going to be buying a property and also selling with financing?

The main goal of MWMFund is to buy those NPLs, $150,000 and below, non-performing loans all over the country and Puerto Rico, we can do at it too, which is interesting. Then we turn them into re-performing. We have a very special loss mitigation outreach that we use that non-for-profit on the counselor that reaches out to them and lowers that barrier of resistance because these borrowers have NPLs. We have a good uptick in our borrower response. We do turn it re-performing. We go ahead and sell that. A lot of the times when we buy these tapes will get vacant homes. We will get them back. We will turn those into affordable housing situations as well by taking them back, fixing them up and possibly offering owner financing.

There are a lot of different exit strategies that we can do, but 95% or 96% of the fund will be focused on buying those non-performing loans in lower-income areas of the country and turning them into re-performing. The nice thing about that is we’re going to try to bring institutional style money into this smaller balanced asset class. We have so many with HUD on first look stuff because we teamed up with the non-for-profit, Fannie, Freddie, those guys have those first look rules that come out that we’re going to be able to take advantage of. For several years that we’ve been in this business, it’s been developing all that infrastructure, those connections like with you, the network to build that. We know that if we hit $50 million, which we’re going to, we’re going to deploy that and we have everything in the background to make this machine work.

It’s surreal to think about it started with a frame duplex in Winter Garden that was $90,000 in debt and paid for $8,400 for it. It started with that. You look at it, the culmination of getting approved by the SEC, sometimes when you’re in the midst of it, you’ll stop and smell the roses and look back.

Anybody out there that’s looking to do something like a structured fund, you don’t have to but we would be happy to answer any questions for anybody. We’ve been through the wringer. I’m way over my head with a lot of this stuff and we had to get people that are smarter than us. We got a data scientist that’s going to be able to comb through all that data cap that we’ve been talking about. We’re able to then properly model and risk manage our buys. We surrounded ourselves with some good people. It’s been a very tedious process. It’s 200-plus pages of offering circular and constantly going back and forth with the auditors and attorneys.

KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes Online

Mortgage Notes Online: Pioneers get slaughtered, but they have the capabilities to take it on the chin.

 

I think to touch on that, paying it forward because the person we modeled our fund after who would maybe be a competitor was so gracious and provided us with as much insight as possible. We were talking earlier on before we started about, how sometimes when you’re a competitor you got to get closed up and clammed up. I think it’s really, “Let’s share the knowledge. There’s enough pie out there for everyone.”

It’s like valuing a home. If any real estate investors out there before you make the investment, you make sure that there are comparables out there. Before we went out there, we didn’t want to be the pioneer because we didn’t have the capabilities to take it on the chin. Pioneers get slaughtered. There is somebody that we modeled after, so we’re hoping to follow in those footsteps as well.

I know you are going to crush it. You’re taking this to a whole different level now. It’s exciting. I’m sitting here going, “You guys are doing things that people have talked about doing in the industry but never have accomplished.” I know you put a lot of hard work. I’m sure seven years feels sometimes like it went by like that. Other times, you trudge through it and keep moving forward and surround yourself with the right people.

The days are long, but the years are short.

I would have thought like me having to get to your academy with three kids, I said, “This start-up type of atmosphere is for the younger generation,” because it would’ve been that much easier. I’m only 42, but if I didn’t have kids and I didn’t have a wife, it is intense. The tests will become your testimonials. We love what we do. We love to create things and that’s why with the fund and Paperstac, we’re going to continue rolling out new technology. We’re going to continue to roll out new funds that are going to help fill those gaps in the underserved areas on our country, whether it’d be mortgage notes or whatever else may be out there. Once we know how to really structure this fund and fundraise, we think we’re going to be able to capitalize on a lot of opportunities out there.

Thank you so much for being on and sharing everything with us. I do appreciate it. Thank you.

Kevin, thank you so much.

Thanks, Kevin.

Thanks for reading. If you’re interested in some of my training, please go to KevinShortle.com and check out the website. I’ll see you soon. Thanks again.

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About TJ Osterman

KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes Online-TJ Osterman is a Husband, Father, Entrepreneur, and is interested in positively impacting society anyway he can.

His current project consists of helping the underserved, the low to middle-income families in this country with affordable housing situations.

Tj and his company MWM currently do this by investing in Troubled Mortgages. They have currently deployed over 6 million dollars into this effort and are managing 100+ mortgages right now.

2018-Launching a New Fund with hopes of driving 200+ million in dollars over the next 5 years into affordable housing situations and saving 10,000 families homes. MWMfund.com

2018-Launching Paperstac, this is the first fully digital online place to invest in mortgages. Paperstac.com

About Rick Allen

KSS 32 | Mortgage Notes OnlineRick is a Husband and a Father and he has always been an entrepreneur.  He loves to positively impact peoples lives and disrupt markets.

Rick’s current projects both revolve around the distressed debt market and disrupting how mortgage notes are traded.

His company Paperstac, is the first fully digital online process for buying and selling mortgage notes. Paperstac.com

As a co-founder at MWM fund, Rick and his team focus on deploying capital in the distressed debt space with the goal of managing for economic returns and social impact.  In short, we are saving peoples homes and giving back the American dream of homeownership.
www.MWMfund.com